What has FT8 done for 6m ?

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ZL3MH
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What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by ZL3MH » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:18 am

FT8 on 6m

Activity and Contacts Summer 6 m Sporadic E season to 25th of December

2018 with FT8 91 contacts
2017 without FT8 30 contacts
2016 without FT8 27 contacts
2015 without FT8 15 contacts
2014 without FT8 31 contacts
2013 without FT8 23 contacts

Notes :

I got FT8 going on 6m 6-1-18.

For the last 15 odd years most HF rigs have 6m but the numbers on 6m
have not increased.

I have always said for 6m you need a minimum of 100w and 4 elements
( SSB ) anything else is below par. In ZL3 most people have high power !

With FT8 J Poles , Moxons, dipoles will work.

For years I ran 50w FT101zd MK3 to an FT650b to a 4 element beam,
a below par signal and I was struggling on weaker signals especially
VK6

The numbers on 6m have doubled on tripled with FT8 so like it or not
FT8 has increased the activity a lot.

73 Murray ZL3MH

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by ZL3MH » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:25 am

My old Below par SSB 6m + 2m Transverter system and antenna's

Murray ZL3MH
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VHF FT101zd Transverter station.JPG
Satellite and 6m_ HF antennas.jpg

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK7XX » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:39 am

ZL3MH wrote: The numbers on 6m have doubled on tripled with FT8 so like it or not
FT8 has increased the activity a lot.

73 Murray ZL3MH
I have worked several stations this year on FT8 that I have never even heard/seen on 6 before so for me, it has also increased my contact count.

73
John
VK7XX

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by ZL3ADT » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:57 pm

FT8 has given us lots more stations to work, will be interesting to see if they will be come magic band long term operators.

Who would have believed QSOs with DU and SA would be happening at this time and FT8 is a big help here. And JA I see tonight.

Down side is personal contact with people you get to know over the years gone. I need to watch rig waterfall for down band activity.

Ross ZL3RJ

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK3ZAZ » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:19 pm

except we are working sa with jt65
ft8 has taken some qrm away from that.
like wspr it has its place and is a way of getting qsos if thats your thing.
pointless when signals are s nine.
probably will be used to win the contest!
like rtty its just a mode.
perfect for some folks.
not for others.
Tread your own path :om:

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK6OX » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:53 pm

VK3ZAZ wrote:except we are working sa with jt65
ft8 has taken some qrm away from that.
To some small extent...
VK3ZAZ wrote:like wspr it has its place and is a way of getting qsos if thats your thing.
Isn't that what hams strive for....making QSOs i.e. 2-way contacts?
VK3ZAZ wrote:pointless when signals are s nine.
Agree. Though some hams are not comfortable with speaking and some don't have CW skills so prefer the digi modes.
But that doesn't matter.....hams the world over communicate in whichever way they feel comfortable with.
VK3ZAZ wrote:probably will be used to win the contest!
So what? Does that worry you? If not, why make the comment.
VK3ZAZ wrote:like rtty its just a mode.
perfect for some folks.
not for others.
Yep, just a mode. Just like JT65, CW and SSB.
73
Andy VK6OX

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by ZL2WHO » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:29 am

In my view FT8 shows how bad things really are. Its a great asset but only a few years ago we were struggling to find a clear SSB freq.
Gone is the prop that we were so used to, Off to the beach, think ill make some 6m mobile contacts to VK..
Gone are the 10m contacts into EU..
49.75 vids are virtually non existent, Snotel.... whats that ? Pipe ups into JA .. US beacons...

Like it or hate it, FT8 makes contacts..

Be thankfull for VK ZL openings and the like ..

HNY
Mark.

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by ZL3MH » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:25 am

I also enclose some pictures of my portable field day station
Its a IC-202s and a HB 80w amp for 2m and a MMT144/50
Transverter for 6m and a HB 80w amp.. This gear is not too stable
but ok for ssb. FT8 makes most of my gear obsolete!
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6+2m station front view.jpg
6M 80w amp.jpg

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VK3ZAZ
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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK3ZAZ » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:47 am

ZL2WHO wrote:In my view FT8 shows how bad things really are. Its a great asset but only a few years ago we were struggling to find a clear SSB freq.
Gone is the prop that we were so used to, Off to the beach, think ill make some 6m mobile contacts to VK..
Gone are the 10m contacts into EU..
49.75 vids are virtually non existent, Snotel.... whats that ? Pipe ups into JA .. US beacons...

Like it or hate it, FT8 makes contacts..

Be thankfull for VK ZL openings and the like ..

HNY
Mark.
CONTACT yep says it all.


IMO
FT8 caters for the perfect ADD OCD type who demand instant satisfaction.
Examples are locals calling people who are calling for DX
usually against grain on EVENS in middle of Weak Signal PATH on JT mode
Got bored and went FT8
And that's the crunch it is WS WEAK SIGNAL
not this +16 crap.


As to why make comment
Last time I looked it was a democracy outside.
this is a forum requesting all inputs
if u don't like it don't look
Tread your own path :om:

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VK3ZAZ
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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK3ZAZ » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:51 am

ZL2WHO wrote:In my view FT8 shows how bad things really are. Its a great asset but only a few years ago we were struggling to find a clear SSB freq.
Gone is the prop that we were so used to, Off to the beach, think ill make some 6m mobile contacts to VK..
Gone are the 10m contacts into EU..
49.75 vids are virtually non existent, Snotel.... whats that ? Pipe ups into JA .. US beacons...

Like it or hate it, FT8 makes contacts..

Be thankfull for VK ZL openings and the like ..

HNY
Mark.
Contact?
synonyms: communication, connection, correspondence, touch, association

Barely enough room to exchange a name
RADIO TEXTING MATE

As for making a comment last time I looked we lived in a free state !
Tread your own path :om:

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by ZL2WHO » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:29 pm

VK3ZAZ wrote:
ZL2WHO wrote:In my view FT8 shows how bad things really are. Its a great asset but only a few years ago we were struggling to find a clear SSB freq.
Gone is the prop that we were so used to, Off to the beach, think ill make some 6m mobile contacts to VK..
Gone are the 10m contacts into EU..
49.75 vids are virtually non existent, Snotel.... whats that ? Pipe ups into JA .. US beacons...

Like it or hate it, FT8 makes contacts..

Be thankfull for VK ZL openings and the like ..

HNY
Mark.
CONTACT yep says it all.


IMO
FT8 caters for the perfect ADD OCD type who demand instant satisfaction.
Examples are locals calling people who are calling for DX
usually against grain on EVENS in middle of Weak Signal PATH on JT mode
Got bored and went FT8
And that's the crunch it is WS WEAK SIGNAL
not this +16 crap.


As to why make comment
Last time I looked it was a democracy outside.
this is a forum requesting all inputs
if u don't like it don't look
Rather an odd reply Steve, Not all of us are on your level.

Enjoy the DX what ever mode you choose.

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK5ZK » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:15 pm

Surely this subject has been flogged to death.

It seems to me that some folk just type what ever they are thinking
at the time.
Just get on and enjoy Amateur Radio as you choose instead of ranting about this, that and the other
about this mode or that.
Give it a rest please.

HNY to all,

Garry VK5ZK

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by ZL3OZ » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:58 pm

Of course i think all right thinking people are wrong.
In a nut shell that is.
And I live in one, a nut shell that is.

Have a great new year folk. Hope the propagation improves soon as we all have cabin fever it seems.
Ken
ZL3OZ

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK3ZAZ » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:19 pm

ZL3OZ wrote:Of course i think all right thinking people are wrong.
In a nut shell that is.
And I live in one, a nut shell that is.

Have a great new year folk. Hope the propagation improves soon as we all have cabin fever it seems.
Ken
ZL3OZ
:om:
lol
Last edited by VK3ZAZ on Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tread your own path :om:

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK3ZAZ » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:21 pm

truce :popcorn:

ft8 is the perfect mode for the personalities of the hams concerned absolutely perfect.
Tread your own path :om:

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by ZL3MH » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:19 am

FT8 on 6m

Activity and Contacts Summer 6 m Sporadic E season to 31th of December , Start of the New Year

2018 with FT8 121 contacts
2017 without FT8 31 contacts
2016 without FT8 30 contacts
2015 without FT8 29 contacts
2014 without FT8 45 contacts
2013 without FT8 27 contacts

Roll on the DX

73 Murray ZL3MH

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK3ZAZ » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:10 am

FT8 was a total failure during recent 6M openings from my perspective
Also VK3FZ and I did tests trying to decode Willem and its just not reliable at -19 -20
the following from PSK reporter where you can look up anyone

https://pskreporter.info/pskmap.html

and ham spots

https://hamspots.net/
first worked WA6OSX at 00:50 2 way JT65A
you might get a shock as I did
cudda shudda wudda...

W9FF 6m JT65 15545 km 01:13:50 copied by this station
KA9CFD 6m JT65 15517 km 01:15:51 copied by
W5LDA 6m JT65 14925 km 01:25:52 copied by
AI5I 6m JT65 14084 km 01:30:07 copied by
W7GJ 6m JT65 13914 km 01:32:26 worked him
N6SS 6m JT65 13522 km 01:25:50 worked him
N7CW 6m JT65 13495 km 01:25:50 copied by
K6UM 6m JT65 13223 km 02:05:50 copied by
W3XS 6m JT65 13104 km 02:17:50 copied by
N6ED 6m FT8 12986 km 01:29:51 copied by and said more VKs should have been on FT8 not JT mode.
N6ML 6m JT65 12939 km 01:39:50 worked him
said we should qsy OFF 313 and call on 50.323.

On ft8 it was worse for me when I called cq got answered by ZL7DX twice at +7 so worked him.

which then saw many US drop me and call him

The following in from K6QXY on 3/1 opening
RX,ing so far THIS is what he HRD:
12/27 ZL1SG @ 0153Z
12/30 ZL3RC @ 2259Z
1/3 VK7AC@ 0041Z
VK3OT @ 0048Z ,
VK3BD @ 0052Z ,
VK4HJ @ 0110Z

he said on cw he worked into KH6 did not hear any VKs
Tread your own path :om:

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK5ZK » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:53 am

Just a few comments.

FT8 was not a "total failure" as contacts were made. I worked WA6OSX and others made contacts too.

It is well known that JT65 has better weak signal performance than FT8. No surprise there.
Local test done here with very weak signals over a 100km path indicated that JT65 had the edge.
But the difference was not that great. It was a stable path too so that favoured JT65.

The signals from NA were relatively stable. You need about 5 minutes to complete a contact on JT65
On FT8 it is 1 minute or so. On an unstable band that can make all the difference.
I had several partial contacts to NA last Thursday on JT65 because the signal did not last for the 5 minutes required.
I may have completed the contact on FT8. Don't know. If it was strong enough I would have for sure.

A comparison of the number of contacts made on each mode is pointless as most in VK at least were on JT65.
I suspect most of the big stations in NA were too.

Why this subject keeps on running I just don't know. JT65 and FT8 are different modes.
One could say that JT65 is a "total failure" on E's contacts around the Pacific because
many more contacts are made on FT8. Does that indicate FT8 is better.? For most of these contacts
the answer is yes.

Given that both modes are available in the programs in use it is easy
to switch to the mode that best suits the conditions at the time.

Just my thoughts.

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK2CSW » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:24 am

Some other thoughts.

The results presented as "total failure" are simply an example of one troll's operator's confirmation bias. If you only have a hammer everything starts to look like a nail.

If you hate a particular mode, any excuse to run it down is good enough.

I simply don't get the hating of a mode of operation, if you don't like it, there are plenty of other modes and bands to play on.

Perhaps it is Relevance Deprivation Syndrome? Other folk are off having fun using a new toy, but are leaving those who 'have always done it this way' out of the game and this is triggering feelings of loss, of being left out and of anger? Who knows? I certainly don't and I have never professed to have an understanding of human psychology.

(Maybe that's why I like playing with radios and fast turn-over digital modes?).
______________________________________________________________
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Where are we going? And exactly why am I in a hand-basket?

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Re: What has FT8 done for 6m ?

Post by VK5ZK » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:40 am

Some interesting opinions Colin.

I noted the poster was more than happy to use FT8 to work FO5QB this morning.
Probably supports my point about "horses for courses".

The speed of FT8 vs JT65 resulted in MANY more contacts being made in the relatively brief opening to FO5.

That says it all I think.

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