Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

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Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK5PJ » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:08 am

Please Mr Icom I would like a IC-910 replacement based upon the IC-7300 platform

Yes Mr Icom you heard me, a dedicated VHF rig for those keen on the bands above 100 MHz and not wanting to compromise on performance and functions.

It should use the SDR technology from the 7300 as its IF and provide dedicated receiver front ends and transmitter P.A's for 144, 432 and 1296. Along with seperate keying lines for each band that are user accessible from an 8pin DIN socket. Yes you heard me, a send pin for each band and while we are at it how about a pre-amp switching line for each band as well on that connector to augmnet DC up the coax for mast head pre-amps? If the design boys and girls are really on their game, I am sure a slot for an extra band module would be a nice thing for the 220 and 902 MHz bands in the USA.

While we are at this critical point, the rear of the radio should have a fully functional Ethernet port for connecting to a home network that allows us to connect to the radio via a web browser to control simple functions like freq mode and memories and stream the receiver audio to my PC. Of course the now common USB connection should be included for those wanting to use digital modes.

Every oscilator in the radio should tied to an internal OXCO that is able to be locked to an external 10 MHz if plugged in on the rear panel.

Oh seeing we have a HF rig in there as an IF, it would not hurt to make the IF accessible on the rear panel for driving microwave transverters, or for the very keen keep the HF function but at 10 watts only to save on heating and overall size.

It is 6 months to christmas Mr Icom, could I have a pre-production unit under my tree as a present P-L-E-A-S-E (my credit car details are - xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxx)
Kind regards,
A keen Icom owner

Anyone care to add to my wish list?
Peter Sumner, vk5pj
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK1KW » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:33 am

Agree - but don't forget the GPS internal locking with GPS readout and a 10MHz ref output for other equipment in the shack and please include video output like IC-7000.
Why not give us an IF in and OUT on 2.4 and 10Ghz too.
You wanna sell radios Mr ICOM?
Regards
Rob
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK1JA » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:40 am

+1

There's a big hole in the market at the moment and if Icom filled this hole they would make a killing - I would buy one in a flash.
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK3QI » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:10 am

Peter,

A couple of extra things:

(1) with the cost of GPS receivers so low now, it should be included within the rig - just need a powered socket on the back for the external antenna.

(2) whilst having individual PTTs for each band, make sure that the power output for each band is individually controllable as well (as in the TS2000)

(3) extra "slots" for additional bands - not limited by frequency - so one could add transverters for 3, 5 and 10 Ghz for example - all one needs to do is define the IF for these transverters in software - I am thinking 500 Mhz for example.

Cheers
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK3BA » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:22 pm

G'day Folks,

I tried this on with Icom Aust years ago and I can't recall if I even got a reply. But instead we got the IC-9100 as it is today... Icom have looked after the HF/DC enthusiasts for years, but haven't really looked after those of us that prefer to work on 2m and upwards.

We're still dreaming of a 2/70/23 rig with colour screen and many of the features of the IC-7600, non-global power control, balanced mic input and many of the other wish-list items as listed above. And why do we still see base rigs with SO-239 connectors? This has never made sense to me for many base rigs to continue with yesteryear connectors. What's so hard about N-type connectors?????

I'd be the same - bring out a something of a similar feature level as the IC-7600 and in a similar footprint (sorry, the IC-7300 format has yet to float my boat) with all of the extra fruit and with the latest techniques and I'd take one today.

But, in the absence of anything on the horizon like this, all we can do is continue to dream... :roll:

Cheers,
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK3AUU » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:43 pm

If what I heard at Gippstech is any guide, they should give away any ideas of DV. Most of us like to be able to recognize the voice of the person we are in contact with.
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK3BQ » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:47 pm

Icom AUSTRALIA had a hands on day at EMDRC just after the 7300 launch.

They had a Japanese engineer with them at this event. A number of us raised the above "Wishlist" with them. Including independent band power levels. 10mhz reference and other traits.

THey we're all noted down.

But the next version 7300esq Icom radio will be a IC 7650 something to replace 10 year old ic7600/7700 dual receive mid market boxes.


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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK3ALB » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:28 am

Add a properly built web server with a good user interface that doesn't require RS-BA1 or other such proprietary software. Yes it ruins their tiered sales model but as demonstrated by LimeSDR and all the other things that are coming our way in the next few years the time of the big black boxes has almost gone.

LimeSDR is not the only thing out there. Some months ago I had a QSO on a 3.4GHz panel to someone using HackRF. Yes it was a bit clunky but it shows that the future is coming real soon.
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK5PJ » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:28 pm

While I realise my wish list may just be that, a wish. It is not so far fetched to be a huge R&D expense for Icom.

The 7300 technology is already there and going, the VHF / UHF RF sections could be lifted from the 9100 hardware. I suspect the biggest expense may be firmware / software to make it all talk.

The 7700 / 7800 have demonstrated that they can lock all the oscilators together and give the desired stability in one package. As far as having a GPS disciplined reference internal to the radio, well I would not put that on the MUST have list as I feel this would push the price over the top for many sales as it has to be both appealing and affordable to sell (as Adam pointed out about the IC-275 series, which I still have two of in the shack LOL) as if it is too expensive, it becomes a white elephant for them.

Adams (4GHZ) work with the interface box he built and sold for the 910 shows how many others want the individual keying lines for each band, I have read in some online articles about his interfaces ending up all over the world, good work Adam.

The individual power settings per band is one I missed, thanks to those who listed it, if my 910 had this I would have saved myself a few blown fuses and lots of swearing.

The TENTEC rigs have shown what is possible via an ethernet port for radio control so that is not new to the hobby but I guess new to Icom, while I would not cry if it was missing, it would always be a missed chance to make the radio as one of the all time greats for VHF :D

Onward and upward, time for me to start an email campain to ICOM HQ.

Regards,
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK4REX » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:35 pm

Hi Lou

I also have a HackRF and have copied 4OE over a 182k path at 3.4ghz using a pcb log antenna. Using GNURadio and GNURadio companion you can build an interface to Rx and Tx in any mode including P25 with DES OFB encryption like the emenegncy services are now using.(OK you don't know the encryption key but as it's all digital it's not impossible to generate a rolling code to try to find the key). The HackRf covers 10Mhz to 6Ghz and is available now. (No connection just a happy user)

Like wise with Pete's comment I bought an Anan 100D and with the excellent software PowerSDRMrx and all it's features, I have built a 144/432/1296 transverter system that fully interfaces with the Anan and it works like a real radio should. Even the "S" meter means something, you have a choice of displaying S units or dBm and in the software you can calibrate the the gain so that meter on the all the VHF bands reads correctly. I set mine up so that -100dBm reads -100dBm on each band and it tracks from -136 up to -30dBm. At last a meaningful meter although some don't like the fact there not always S9+50dB. Also the whole system is GPS locked, the Anan, the PLL for 144 and 432 is based on ZL2BKC's pll and the 1296 is an SG Labs TVTR with external locking. My 10Mhz reference (Thunderbolt and display also has an ethernet port to provide a stratum 1 time server to lock the time of the laptop). This can all be done now with reasonable easily technology except you need a laptop but you need that for digital modes anyway.

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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK5KK » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:24 pm

Yes I'd like a "IC-9300" as well but suspect as Adam has pointed the ROI case will need to be bullet proof! The IC-9100 is a fairly recent release they would still be paying off the Yen invested in that, all new medium to high end transceivers will be SDR from now on so it will happen but maybe not for a year or 3 :-(

As for the other camp ... the long awaited FT857 replacement, the new Yaesu FT891 looks good as a down sized version of a FT991 but leaving out 144/432 is proof that accountants (and not VHF enthusiasts) run that company! And its not SDR ... enuf said!

That brings up the latest urban myth ... Yaesu's replacement for the 15 year old FT817. Maybe called a FT791, SDR ofcourse and a bit bigger format so it has a usable screen? Pure speculation! Seeing the original FT817 sold for $1400 in 2001 (just found my receipt!) and FT817ND's now sell for ~$700 they have clearly paid for R&D several times over! SOTA has kept the FT817 alive, who knows how many have been made, I've seen claims over 100,000 .. no doubt still making them money so why change? They may be forced to change ... most the parts inside the FT817 are now obsolete, for one Collins no longer make the mechanical filters used in the filter options!

Going forward the smaller SDR manufacturers will do well as their livelyhoods depend on bleeding edge. At least one/two are seriously looking at "transverter" style front ends with SDR back ends for 144/432 ... and Lime Micro's architecture will find its way into a few transceivers from the small manufacturers so there will be a whole brace of new transceivers come mid 2017

Cheers

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Postby VK3ZAZ » Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:41 pm

VK5PJ wrote:Please Mr Icom I would like a IC-910 replacement based upon the IC-7300 platform


Kind regards,
A keen Icom owner

Anyone care to add to my wish list?




Ah Icom don't ya just love them?
How did we ever survive using a IC251A/451A 10 watts out?
Worked VK6 back then worked VK6 just before with more expensive rig all sounded the same.

I always tell story of the 6M CW EME record done with a KENWOOD TS670
no filters just in CW mode and zero phase noise,
no specans no internet no logger
and
the record still stands today.. :popcorn:
2M VK3 record done with ICOM 821 no preamp just OCXO option.
No complaints from me except the price $600, and I talk to folks on $3000 rigs all the time and they are not happy with their rigs.
And they don't work anything I don't much.
Out with old in with new.
wish away folks operators make qsos not rigs..
Give best rig to a lid and he will still be a lid.
And best rig in world u/s without that appendage the antenna :om:
Soap box away.. :om:
PJ
If I see something on the trading table Ill swipe it for you on way out of Tokyo, and you can come and bail me out on arrival home. :popcorn:

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then you are part of the problem!
No problems?
Not a problem then!
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK4GHZ » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:12 am

Less than 24 months on from your original post Peter, and here we are, with the IC-9700 release not far away. :D

VK5PJ wrote:Please Mr Icom I would like a IC-910 replacement based upon the IC-7300 platform

Yes Mr Icom you heard me, a dedicated VHF rig for those keen on the bands above 100 MHz and not wanting to compromise on performance and functions.

It should use the SDR technology from the 7300 as its IF and provide dedicated receiver front ends and transmitter P.A's for 144, 432 and 1296. Along with seperate keying lines for each band that are user accessible from an 8pin DIN socket. Yes you heard me, a send pin for each band and while we are at it how about a pre-amp switching line for each band as well on that connector to augmnet DC up the coax for mast head pre-amps? If the design boys and girls are really on their game, I am sure a slot for an extra band module would be a nice thing for the 220 and 902 MHz bands in the USA.

While we are at this critical point, the rear of the radio should have a fully functional Ethernet port for connecting to a home network that allows us to connect to the radio via a web browser to control simple functions like freq mode and memories and stream the receiver audio to my PC. Of course the now common USB connection should be included for those wanting to use digital modes.

Every oscilator in the radio should tied to an internal OXCO that is able to be locked to an external 10 MHz if plugged in on the rear panel.

Oh seeing we have a HF rig in there as an IF, it would not hurt to make the IF accessible on the rear panel for driving microwave transverters, or for the very keen keep the HF function but at 10 watts only to save on heating and overall size.

It is 6 months to christmas Mr Icom, could I have a pre-production unit under my tree as a present P-L-E-A-S-E (my credit car details are - xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxx)
Kind regards,
A keen Icom owner

Anyone care to add to my wish list?
Adam, Brisbane
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK5PJ » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:26 am

Hi Adam,
well I think most of the wish list has come to reality but alas I think the separate keying lines for each band is something Mr Icom is allergic too but sooo easy to include.. I did notice the face book group has degraded to those wanting it for FM use or winging why their pet band (220) was not included so will leave them to their petty gripes.
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK4GHZ » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:35 pm

VK5PJ wrote:Hi Adam,
well I think most of the wish list has come to reality but alas I think the separate keying lines for each band is something Mr Icom is allergic too but sooo easy to include..

Hi Peter.
Keep an eye out for the SEQ-9700 - due mid 2019.
A touchscreen based sequencer, with nine outputs to independently drive LNAs, PAs, and switch antennas for each band.
ie; you can switch between a yagi and vertical, based on settable upper & lower frequency limits.

SEQ-9700.png
SEQ-9700.png (4.09 KiB) Viewed 204 times
SEQ-9700-set.png
SEQ-9700-set.png (11 KiB) Viewed 204 times


VK5PJ wrote:I did notice the face book group has degraded to those wanting it for FM use or winging why their pet band (220) was not included so will leave them to their petty gripes.

Totally agree about Facebook.
There are three five Facebook IC-9700 groups that I know of, so far.
Stupid thing about most Facebook groups is, that >50% of members of one group will also be members of other almost identical groups.
"Fear Of Missing Out" takes over, and the chaos just spreads, and this becomes the new norm.
I started culling my FB use back in Nov 2017, and all those wasted hours I have regained each week go towards things that actually matter.
Each to their own. :om:
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK3QI » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:58 pm

Taking note of Peter 5PJ's comments (and thanks for the qsos in the FD Peter) and taking note of Adam's comments about his forthcoming sequencer, a look at the 9700 instruction manual shows that the 9700 has only one keying line on the ACC socket, as per all other Icom models. Sad but true, the TS2000 still has the advantage when one is using different amplifiers for each band with different input power requirements.

Unless Icom has somehow managed to arrange the power levels to be independently set within software, one will have to resort to an external device like Adam's to be able to relieve the situation. So much for Icom listening to users!

I have tried to attach a copy of the relevant page from the Japanese version of the manual.

Cheers

Peter VK3QI
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9700.jpg
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK3QI » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:20 pm

Unfortunately, when looking at the ACC socket in the 9700 and comparing it with the 7300 ACC socket - the 7300 has pin 5 with band data OUT (0 - 8 volts) . No such output is available on the 9700.

If you want the link to the Japanese version of the manual it is here: http://www.icom.co.jp/support/download/ ... N_IM_0.pdf

Cheers

Peter VK3QI and VK3ER/p
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK4GHZ » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:24 pm

VK3QI wrote:Unless Icom has somehow managed to arrange the power levels to be independently set within software...

Discussed in the other IC-9700 topic:
http://www.vklogger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=13764&start=20#p62820
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK1JA » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:51 pm

Thanks for the details on the SEQ-9700, Adam
I did a google search but couldn't find who/where it was being sold, any ideas? I wonder if an ALC output could be added to it.

Strange how the 9700 won't have the varying voltage per band like what the 910 had and the 7300 has. It'll be interesting to see what it does or doesn't have once it's released and people have had a chance to go over it.
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Re: Please Mr ICOM I would like a IC-910 replacement

Postby VK3QI » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:31 pm

Yes Adam,

I have read that bit about setting the maximum power level for each band on the screen - but how does one discriminate between the PTT line for each band.

Here is a typical setup.

(1) 145.150 Mhz 5 or 10 watts driving transverters up to 47 Ghz

(2) 432.150 Mhz about 20 watts drive to THP Hl250Ukx amp

(3) 1296.150 Mhz 10 watts (maximum power of the rig) into 15 metres of FSJ4-50 driving 150 watt masthead amplifier (6 watts in for 180 watts out)

On the TS2000X individual PTT lines for each scenario and power levels remembered for each band

On the Icom rigs, one PTT line for all bands and no band data output. Without an extra external switching device I cannot see how it can be implemented on the Icom.

Thoughts?

Cheers

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