Why WSPR is so good

WSPR discussion

Why WSPR is so good

Postby VK3ZAZ » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:31 pm

And why sitting on your backside trolling bands or scanning is flawed :om:



2015-01-28 03:24 VK5KAA 50.294496 -24 -1 PF94iw +40 10.000 VK5ZRL PF95gc 24 15
2015-01-28 03:22 VK2HC 50.294525 -3 0 QF56me +37 5.012 VK2ZIW QF56hg 40 25
2015-01-28 03:22 VK2CBL 50.294539 -15 0 QF56hi +33 1.995 VK2ZIW QF56hg 9 6
2015-01-28 03:16 ZL2IT 50.294501 -11 0 RF80km +47 50.119 VK5KAA PF94iw 3387 2105
2015-01-28 03:14 VK2HC 50.294524 -3 0 QF56me +37 5.012 VK2ZIW QF56hg 40 25
2015-01-28 03:14 VK2HC 50.294515 +12 0 QF56me +37 5.012 VK2CBL QF56hi 43 27

quiet band all day and blip

LONG DELAYED ECHO?

2015-01-28 03:26 AX3ZAZ 50.294499 -21 0 QF12ag +43 19.953 VK3XPT QF22rb 301 187

Alzheimers moment :om2:
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Re: Why wspr is so good

Postby VK2KRR » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:50 pm

Impressive :shock: :popcorn:

I wont go on and list all the other reasons why its so good }:[ people should know by now.

By the way VK3XPT is at a new QTH (rural property) with an extremely temporary set up, mobile whip above TV antenna. Wait till he gets himself organised there, should be quite good :thumbup:
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Re: Why wspr is so good

Postby VK4DU » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:09 pm

Concur.

The WIA should sponsor a series of GPS locked WSPR beacons around VK for 6, 2 and 70.

IMHO.

73
Glenn
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Re: Why wspr is so good

Postby VK2XN » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:00 pm

10 in 200Hz.png
One picture tells you why


10 Beacons from around the world in a 200Hz bandwidth transmitting low power signals in a 2 minute sequence
Hundreds of receiving stations, like mine, reporting to one central web page... That's good!!
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Re: Why wspr is so good

Postby VK3AMZ » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:11 pm

There are also obvious advantages in the coding and bandwidth reduction techniques....and that is the secret.

The advantages of averaging, reduced bandwidth coding, plus receiver signal recovery make this mode (today) at the sharp end of extreme weak signal recovery.

Check is out:
2015-01-26 19:26 EI0CF 1.838098 -27 0 IO65ih 0.05 VK3AMZ QF22fe 17144 59

That is pretty impressive, 50 mW on 160mx, over 17,000 Kms.

The real beauty of the mode lies in the idea you don't have to be constantly monitoring or have the transmitter sitting idle.

If you are not transmitting for any particular reason, enable WSPR and contribute to the science of the hobby.

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WSPR tracks an opening

Postby VK3ZAZ » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:43 pm

2015-01-28 22:30 VK3ZAZ 144.490466 -12 0 QF12ag +33 1.995 VK3DXE QF21nv 274 170
2015-01-28 22:24 VK3ZTE 144.490562 -21 0 QF22kg +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 249 155
2015-01-28 22:16 VK3ZTE 144.490562 -17 -1 QF22kg +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 249 155
2015-01-28 22:16 VK6DZ 144.490483 -26 0 OF84ux +40 10.000 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 2193 1363
2015-01-28 22:14 VK3ZAZ 144.490479 -29 0 QF12ag +33 1.995 VK3ZTE QF22kg 249 155
2015-01-28 22:14 VK3ZAZ 144.490465 -11 0 QF12ag +33 1.995 VK3DXE QF21nv 274 170
2015-01-28 22:08 VK3ZAZ 144.490477 -12 0 QF12ag +30 1.000 VK3ZTE QF22kg 249 155
2015-01-28 22:08 VK3ZAZ 144.490461 +0 0 QF12ag +30 1.000 VK3DXE QF21nv 274 170
2015-01-28 22:00 VK6DZ 144.490485 -21 0 OF84ux +40 10.000 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 2193 1363
2015-01-28 21:46 VK3ZTE 144.490546 +1 -2 QF22kg +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 249 155
2015-01-28 21:46 VK3DXE 144.490522 +5 1 QF21nv +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 274 170
Last edited by VK3ZAZ on Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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WSPR tracks openings

Postby VK3ZAZ » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:49 pm

2015-01-29 06:50 VK5AKK 50.294474 -27 0 PF94ix +37 5.012 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 424 263
2015-01-29 06:14 VK4TVL 50.294481 -12 0 QH30jq +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 2099 1304
2015-01-29 06:06 VK4TVL 50.294481 -27 0 QH30jq +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 2099 1304
2015-01-29 06:04 VK5AKK 50.294473 -29 0 PF94ix +37 5.012 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 424 263
2015-01-29 06:02 JR4ENY 50.294513 -6 2 PM95sn +40 10.000 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 8154 5067
2015-01-29 05:58 VK4TVL 50.294481 -4 0 QH30jq +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 2099 1304
2015-01-29 05:58 VK4TVL 50.294581 -24 0 QH30jq +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 2099 1304
2015-01-29 05:46 VK4TVL 50.294480 -18 0 QH30jq +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 2099 1304
2015-01-29 05:40 JR4ENY 50.294515 -6 3 PM95sn +40 10.000 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 8154 5067
2015-01-29 05:34 VK4TVL 50.294480 -25 0 QH30jq +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 2099 1304
2015-01-29 05:22 VK4TVL 50.294480 -21 0 QH30jq +43 19.953 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 2099 1304
2015-01-29 04:58 VK5AKK 50.294476 -28 0 PF94ix +37 5.012 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 424 263
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Re: Why wspr is so good

Postby VK3ZAZ » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:57 pm

2015-01-29 06:20 JR4ENY 50.294515 -10 1 PM95sn +40 10.000 VK3ZHY QF21nt 8221 5108
2015-01-29 06:02 JR4ENY 50.294513 -6 2 PM95sn +40 10.000 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 8154 5067
2015-01-29 06:02 JR4ENY 50.294517 +1 1 PM95sn +40 10.000 VK3ZHY QF21nt 8221 5108
2015-01-29 06:02 JR4ENY 50.294487 -4 2 PM95sn +40 10.000 VK2KRR QF34mr 7915 4918
2015-01-29 05:40 JR4ENY 50.294515 -6 3 PM95sn +40 10.000 VK3ZAZ QF12ag 8154 5067
2015-01-29 05:40 JR4ENY 50.294493 -11 4 PM95sn +40 10.000 VK2CBL QF56hi 7781 4835
2015-01-29 05:26 JR4ENY 50.294522 -10 3 PM95sn +40 10.000 VK3ZHY QF21nt 8221 5108

if you check logger no idea the spread of the JA opening from two posts about JA
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Re: Why wspr is so good

Postby VK2KRR » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:36 pm

Your all commenting on the outstanding decodes and sensitivity of the software etc, and this is good, but there is a lot more benefits such as the convenience and availability of data.

I wrote this out on another thread 6 months ago - viewtopic.php?f=83&t=12408

To 'improve' amateur radio, if locking beacons, its then possible to run them on WSPR mode. This would have a positive effect for amateur radio, but I fear it could make it too easy :o and im not sure if thats a good thing either (edit now I think its good). I think this only really would be useful on the base band of 144 MHz, as once people know things are moving on 2m (Edit -and also 6m for E, F prop) they can check higher bands. There would be many advantages of running 2m beacons with WSPR (in TX only mode, no RX.)

- Reduced power costs due to power of less than 10W would be sufficient. And because there would be a much less time spent transmitting.
- Weak signal digital mode, heard easier in more places.
- Instant feedback from others as to who is hearing your beacon, and what the band conditions are like.
- Stations listening for beacons need only monitor a SINGLE frequency for all beacons.
- Huge amount of data able to be obtained 24 hrs a day, through the night etc from those willing to monitor full time and upload data.
- You can still set up a CW ID at the end of each 2 min TX period.
- And more... :shock:
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Re: Why WSPR is so good

Postby VK2TS » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:47 am

Hi Guys

The thing that always intrigues me about WSPR is how does one actually operate when running WSPR as it would de-sense the hell out of your own SSB/CW station? I know it transmits for a period and receives for another peiod of time but you are unable to hear for that TX time. After being a sysop of an EchoIrlp node on 2mx, desense is a major issue that you can reduce, but you can not eliminate it. I ended up having to opt for a UHF link so i could use 2Mx SSB. I can understand a WSPR transmitter being run remotely as a beacon with a ADSL connection and monitored by amateurs using the internet. Calling CQ is the best way to make contacts. If everyone listens and no one calls CQ, nothing happens. I honestly think a lot of the VK WSPR traffic is aircraft enhancement aided especially during peak flight times and adds little to propagation trends. If i sit and listen to VK7, VK4 and VK3 beacons for a period of time I will always hear the CW id's now and then and it always seems to coincide with air flights.

I am not sure WSPR is, or will ever be the future, as it doesn't present a QSO.

Beacon hunt, listen and call CQ, and make contacts.

Cheers
Tony
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Re: Why WSPR is so good

Postby VK3ALB » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:10 am

I think beacons and WSPR are complimentary rather than mutually exclusive.

It seems to me that in many cases WSPR shows what might have been in terms of a QSO. Is there any data in VK on the number of WSPR spots that have converted to a QSO either voice, CW or digital modes?

Whilst there is no doubt that WSPR demonstrates a path is open, without the weight of statistics of human to human real time contacts behind it I'm not sure that it will fundamentally change the way we make contacts.
Be reasonable - do it my way.
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Re: Why WSPR is so good

Postby VK5AKK » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:39 am

I have been spotting VK6 beacons on 2M for many years. I don't expect these spots to translate into voice contacts, due to lack of operators, the time difference etc.
I have more recently run WSPR across to VK6DZ on 2M. I don't expect these spots to translate into voice contacts.
The beacon spots go into the Logger database and the WSPR spots go into the WSPR database. This is valuable historical data which can be retrieved and used by future generations.
For example someone planning a VHF DXpedition can search the historical data and best guess the week to go.
Keep spotting and feeding those databases!
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Re: Why WSPR is so good

Postby VK5PJ » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:43 am

Hello to you all
I really do like WSPR, really! I have invested a great deal of time and money into some of my WSPR activities but I do not think it is an answer for all beacons to be WSPR on one frequency.

The cost of locking each and every beacon to an accurate frequency is not small, then you have the challenge of generating the WSPR sequence on that locked carrier.

Beacon hunting then becomes some thing that can only be done from a home station, with a stable Rx and a PC running observing a single freq for 10s of minutes to get a picture of propagation, no more going out portable in the car to a hill top to see if you can hear a distant beacon or flicking to that beacons memory slot in the rig to see if it s audible.

There is a shift in how beacons are being built, as seen by the recent changes to vk3ruu, vk3rgi, vk5rse and the proposed changes to vk3rgl, these are stable beacons and will allow all and sundry to observe them over long periods of time using what ever digital assistance you like BUT they also cater for the quick check by a non computer assisted operator.

I hope the healthy discussion continues.

regards,
Peter Sumner, vk5pj
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Re: Why WSPR is so good

Postby VK3ALB » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:50 am

Thanks Phil,

It's my observation that when distant beacons are heard there is generally an increase in operators calling in the direction of the beacon. That is seemingly not the case with WSPR but I understand your point.
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Re: Why WSPR is so good

Postby VK3ZAZ » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:01 am

Not so good on working weekday
Cant hold fort on my own

2015-01-29 22:20 VK3ZAZ 144.490487 -22 0 QF12ag +33 1.995 VK6DZ OF84ux 2193 1363
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Re: Why WSPR is so good

Postby VK2KRR » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:32 pm

VK2TS wrote:The thing that always intrigues me about WSPR is how does one actually operate when running WSPR as it would de-sense the hell out of your own SSB/CW station?
Cheers


Tony, WSPR on 2m here runs on my normal SSB rig, so im monitoring the radio paths looking for those that are workable on voice, I dont need to start calling on SSB until im confident the path can support voice OK, which would involve WSPR dB reading of about +5dB and over. But this depends on how desperate you are to make a contact. Ive made contact with most stations numerous times so its no big deal. But when you want to try, you just stop WSPR and change freq on the rig to 144.100 etc. There is no de-sense.

VK2TS wrote:I can understand a WSPR transmitter being run remotely as a beacon with a ADSL connection and monitored by amateurs using the internet. Cheers


You do not need an internet connection to run a WSPR beacon. If its TXing only it just needs to be stable and have good timing. People who hear the beacon will upload the reports of the beacon to the WSPR database.

VK2TS wrote:Calling CQ is the best way to make contacts. If everyone listens and no one calls CQ, nothing happens.

Calling CQ is the only way to make contacts, but is it productive and effective, economic, practical or even possible to be calling CQ on SSB voice 24 hours a day looking for a good path opening?
WSPR spots are not contacts as such. They are merely reports of band conditions and available paths. From these though, contacts can be made then on SSB voice.

VK2TS wrote:I honestly think a lot of the VK WSPR traffic is aircraft enhancement aided especially during peak flight times and adds little to propagation trends. If i sit and listen to VK7, VK4 and VK3 beacons for a period of time I will always hear the CW id's now and then and it always seems to coincide with air flights.

Aircraft reflected signals tend to stop any WSPR decode due to the doppler shift. If there just so happens to be doppler of less than about 3 to 4 Hz over 2 mins, then it may decode. When there is a tropo path and an AE path reflection of sufficient doppler shift away from the tropo signal then 2 signals can decode and you can tell the AE signal because they will tend to have a doppler shifted drift reading on WSPR and also if the TXing station is GPS locked then we know they should be on an exact freq. If the secondary signal is shifted away from this, then we know its AE reflected. There are numerous images on the 2m WSPR WATERFALL IMAGES thread here viewtopic.php?f=85&t=11554 where u can see the AE signals and the tropo signals.

VK2TS wrote:I am not sure WSPR is, or will ever be the future, as it doesn't present a QSO.

WSPR is NOT a QSO. Its an INDICATOR. Just like a beacon is an indicator of band conditions.
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Re: Why WSPR is so good

Postby VK2KRR » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:54 pm

This thread was also began by Steve VK3ZAZ showing how effective WSPR can be for the 6m band where conditions can be somewhat more 'sporadic' than 2m tropo is.
And for 6m band ionospheric signals WSPR is brilliant :!:

You could WASTE your life looking for band openings on 6m when all you hear is noise more often than not. Where as when you can use WSPR and monitor the single frequency for sporadic path openings and have these uploaded automatically online, then the 6m buff is then free to do other things. If they have a life other than radio or not is another question. But, with todays mobile internet technology on your smart phone etc, you can be off doing what ever else you need to be doing, periodically check whats being heard at your rig, from where and at what signal strength. If something good shows up, then its time to head back to the shack. If the band is dead, its all good, keep doing your other tasks.

The data provided is quite amazing when there is a lot of good stations on board.
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