Icom IC-9700 users topic

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VK3ZAZ
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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK3ZAZ » Mon May 06, 2019 6:39 pm

VK3BA wrote:G'day Steve,


Steve, I'll drop in over the next few weeks, we'll smoke a pipe & sip a sherry together and reflect on the birth of the IC-9700... :angel:

Cheers,
Good job

BYO glasses Ive got the grog and I will let you play with the RC28 and remote from where we sit in DX heaven.'

You are correct it has more attributes than deteriments.

Investigate the IP+ advanced intercept point
and preamp also all filters variable
Dual bandpass.

SCope is brilliant you can set it up to look at 600 kHz of 2m see all the beacons all the morning rush crowd even saw some guy testing today on 144.120
No birdies can hear an ant fart at 400 km

Cant use radio memories in remote
band edge rolls over to next band up or down which is bizarre.
so entering 99 repeaters yet again as csv don't fit.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... -a5OI3CXkX


cul
Tread your own path :om:

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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK4GHZ » Tue May 07, 2019 12:24 pm

FYI...

Glen, VK1XX, is developing an externally locked solution for the IC-9700.

http://www.cortexrf.com.au/IC9700lock.html
Last edited by VK4GHZ on Tue May 07, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK7HH » Tue May 07, 2019 12:27 pm

VK4GHZ wrote: Glen, VK1XX, is developing an externally locked solution for the IC-9700.
Thanks Adam. I had a look at Glen's solution... the surgery on 0402 parts doesn't sound like it's for the faint of heart.

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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK4GHZ » Thu May 09, 2019 3:45 pm

Glen, VK1XX, has posted an update.
VK1XX wrote: 8 May 2019

I have taken a look at the locking method in the IC7610. It's essentially the same thing we are doing- they have a oddball frequency oscillator for all the clocks (actually it is not oddball, it's a audio sample rate multiple) and they lock it to a decent internal or external 10 meg reference ... 

The approach they need to take is DIFFERENT from the IC7610. Which leads me to think Icom dont actually have experience with doing it this way. Anyway, we'll see if Icom get this sorted.

They might implement a frequency counter in the FPGA (which is easy ), the counter is driven from their 49.152 derived clocks. At some period, perhaps a 10 times per second , the frequency count is sent to the microprocessor, and the micro runs some filtering and a PID loop, and drives the VCXO as required. Getting enough error information at 10 times a second on a small error means a rolling window of counts which essentially produces a high sample rate of errors that can be averaged. The high rates of update are required to be able to follow the drift when the fan starts and stops. 

...and Icom if you do a HW rev, you need to isolate the copper pours under the oscillator so it doesnt follow the bottom and top layer copper temperature.... 
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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK7HH » Sun May 26, 2019 12:45 pm

Yes the Icom IC-9700 has been GPS locked! How? Well Rex VK7MO brings us up to speed on developments, explains the features he enjoys most out of this new radio and the benefits for those wanting to use this rig on Earth-Moon-Earth (EME) moonbounce or other weaker signal digital modes.


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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK3ZAZ » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:57 pm

All gone a tad quiet on this discussion.
RT systems now have rig programmer using standard usb for $35 us.
it allows cut and paste from any other rt systems radio so you can cut and paste all the 2m freqs fwiw.
Icom have a freebie but not as flexible.
no further upgrades.
notice a few of the wspr users have ceased drifting.
I cant control my over spiking pa trips so dont use them.
the price has dropped in usa with $200 rebates to $1600
lots if 7300 4 sale on vk ham
no 9700 yet but!
We are not welcome on the 9700 users pages anymore
cheers
Tread your own path :om:

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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK4GHZ » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:45 am

FYI, posted overnight elsewhere.
dl5ocd@...

Hi all,

i just got the information from Icom Europe that the drift-problem is fixed.

We just have to wait for the next FW releases. It will be available soon, no fixed date given.
No Information how they fixed it and how the implementation will work yet.

I will share my results soon, i think that are really good news ;o)

Many thanks to the technicians from Icom in Bad Soden who had an open ear for me!

73
Michael
DL5OCD

and then
dl5ocd@...

Hello everyone,

i just got informed by Icom-Europe that the drift-challenge is over.
They recognized the issue and fixed it, we just have to wait for the next FW.
Wow, let`s see…. :o)

73
Michael

Let's wait and see. :popcorn:
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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK4GHZ » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:54 am

And another interesting snippet involving the always-on fan modification... which may become unnecessary, if the above is true.
I have now got my IC9700 plumbed into my 23cm EME system.
I have the 23cm output set at 12% (about 1.5W) and this drives the two stage PA to around 200W output.
on JT65C I see that the first few seconds of the received signal, when returning from transmit to receive from my QSO partner appears about 20Hz high, drifting back to nominal by about 15-20 seconds. This repeats throughout the QSO.
Decoding incoming JT65C is fine, (at least down to about -20dBJT).
The amount of drift is slightly less than I experienced with my TS2000X (50Hz peak cycle) before doing the always-on fan mod.
so far so good, but the oscillator definitely needs locking for serious use!

Sam, G4DDK
:om2:
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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK7HH » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:21 am

I also have reliable information that a "local" kit provider may be coming out with a solution shortly. In prototype I'm led to believe.

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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK4GHZ » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:50 pm

FYI...
Rex Moncur wrote: 10:02 #2946

Glen, VK1XX, is progressing with a Mark II version of his GPSDO locking for the IC-9700 as per his blog below:

http://www.cortexrf.com.au/IC9700lock.html

The objective of the Mark II is to avoid the need for microscope level soldering to add the board. At this stage we are still hoping that ICOM will come up with a solution that does not void the warranty, but if ICOM does not come up with something in the next 4 to 6 weeks Glen's intention is to make a production board available for those who require GPSDO locking.

73 Rex VK7MO
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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK3QI » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:20 am

Adam,

The last line in Sam, G4DDK's post says it all: "so far so good, but the oscillator definitely needs locking for serious use!"

Based on some other naïve posts made recently about features in the IC9700, I suspect that the earlier post regrading the European Icom engineers, is old news and still doesn't really address the essential problem.

The Icom publicity brochure clearly states in the first line; "Built with the VHF/UHF weak signal operator in mind,". That is clearly not the case without master oscillator external locking.

Let's hope that Glenn VK1XX can produce a workable solution that can be easily installed in the rig.

Having installed a large number of the VK3HZ units in a variety of rigs, I can see why Glenn is putting all his effort into a workable solution that doesn't require microscopic surgery!

Cheers

Peter VK3QI

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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK1JA » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:17 am

I just received the following email from one of the iogroups.

No sign of the new firmware on the 'Icom World' site yet. Apparently it's on the Icom Japan site though.

The "Sync to REF IN" function is added for the reference frequency adjustment' sounds very promising!!!

************
Firmware V1.10 for the IC-9700 was released today (7 June 2019 in Japan).

http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/dow ... 9700/1_10/

Release Notes:
Changes from Version 1.06

"Sync to REF IN" function is added for the reference frequency adjustment.
"UDP Hole Punch" function is added to the DV Gateway function.
"Home CH Beep" function is added.
An indication showing Shifted Digital Twin PBT is added in the filter icon.
SCAN key action is changed.
A file format to save the settings readable with older version firmware is added.
The CI-V commands 25 and 26 work correctly.

In addition< the CS-9700 software has been updated.

http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/dow ... 9700_1_10/

Release Notes:
Changes from Version 1.01

The setting items below are added to support IC-9700 firmware version 1.10.
"Home CH" (Band Setting, DR Mode Setting).
"Home CH Beep" (Common Setting > Beep).
"Sync to REF IN" (Common Setting > REF Adjust).
"UDP Hole Punch" (DV Gateway > Internal Gateway Set).
Please download and update at your convenience.

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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK7HH » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:38 am

VK1JA wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:17 am
The "Sync to REF IN" function is added for the reference frequency adjustment' sounds very promising!!!
Has anyone tested this on their 9700 yet?

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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK4GHZ » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:18 pm

Notice that the FPGA version remains at 1.03 with this V1.10 firmware update.

V1.06
Main CPU: 1.06
Sub CPU: 1.00
Front CPU: 1.00
FPGA Program: 1.03
FPGA Data: 1.00
DV DSP: 1.02


V1.10
Main CPU: 1.10
Sub CPU: 1.00
Front CPU: 1.00
FPGA Program: 1.03
FPGA Data: 1.00
DV DSP: 1.02


The FPGA is where the 10 MHz "Reference" goes to, and yet no changes to the FPGA code.
Curious. :popcorn:
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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK4GHZ » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:53 pm



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz3cCiva3Oo
VK5KK on Youtube wrote: First test of IC9700 V1.10 firmware Auto Syncing to 10 MHz Reference.

For the test the set is cooling down after a 2 minute TX cycle on 1296.100 MHz.

To set the rig to sync to the reference just go into the function menu where the original calibrate adjust function was.

It does stay set when you turn the set off so no need to go in each time you turn the set on. It will unsync in the first minute if it has a real (15C) cold start.

If you look closely you will see the fine adjustment tracking the drift, when it gets to 0 the main adjustment increments/decrements 1 digit and the fine tune resets to 33 or 66 depending on which way it is drifting.

A test was done on 1296 listening on our local GPS locked beacon , there were no "audible steps". When I simulated fast drift (heat gun on 49.152 MHz internal oscillator) the digits changed every 0.5 seconds.

As we found out in early tests each digit change is actually 2 steps so that probably means it is updating every 250 mS. Anything faster than that (i.e it has to jump 2 or more digits at a time) it unsyncs when it goes to change the main digit.
Only a rough test, more soon. The next test is to see how those steps look on a digital mode.

Edit: I tried varying the 10 MHz input +/- a few Hz using a sig gen to investigate its tolerance to warm up frequency change and/or a GPSDO still in warm up mode. It is tolerant of a stable input +/- 1 ppm but does get upset if the rate of change is faster than it can adjust when it goes to change the main adjustment up or down (as above).

The answer is to just unsync the reference in the menu the GPS until it the set and GPSDO is properly warmed up (or don't turn them off!). Heat cycling on 1 minute at 50% on 1296 didn't seem to upset it but may be a problem for 144/432 when the fan cuts in.
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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK1JA » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:50 pm

I've just updated the firmware to 1.10 and now at least I am getting decoded on 2m WSPR running 10w, but it still has drift, which could be multiplied on 70cm and 23cm to the point of no decodes.

It does seem that they have decided to sync to the 10MHz ref every 250ms or so, rather than locking the LO totally, which is a shame. Hence why it was a main CPU update rather than a FPGA update.

On a positive note - MiniKit's announcement that they are developing a kit to lock the IC9700 - details are;

'the New Mini-Kits GPS9700 Prototype that was designed to lock the new Icom IC-9700 to an external 10MHz GPS reference. The design incorporates a low phase noise 49.152MHz 0.28 ppm voltage controlled TCXO module that is divided by a reverse DDS to 10MHz and compared to the 10MHz GPS to derive the voltage control. A small coupler PC board is soldered to the top of the TCXO can inside the IC-9700, and then the SMA to IPX cable is replaced with a longer cable. There are no other modifications or soldering required to the IC-9700 boards so should not be an issue with warrantee. The signal into the coupler from the GPS-9700 is slightly stronger in level allowing the Radio to lock to it instead of the internal reference. At this stage I cannot give any pricing or when it will be available.'

This part is interesting 'A small coupler PC board is soldered to the top of the TCXO can inside the IC-9700'.

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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK4GHZ » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:03 pm

Buried amongst the dribble on Faceplant:
V110.JPG
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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK4GHZ » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:10 pm

VK1JA wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:50 pm
This part is interesting 'A small coupler PC board is soldered to the top of the TCXO can inside the IC-9700'.
Any residual solder evidence from this 'mod' will no doubt void the warranty.
The first few returns to Icom might slip through as warranty jobs, but I'm sure they will be on the look out for any signs of tinkering before too long?
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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK1JA » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:28 pm

Reading what Mark (MiniKits) has said, it sounds like there isn't any electrical connection (wires/jumpers) to any part of the circuit board on the 9700. The coupler is just soldered to the top of the txco can. How would that actually 'lock' the txco if the coupler isn't electrically connected? Passively?

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Re: Icom IC-9700 users topic

Post by VK7HH » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:41 pm

VK1JA wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:28 pm
How would that actually 'lock' the txco if the coupler isn't electrically connected? Passively?
Yes injection locking. Similar method to the way 3HZ did it with the 706.

http://www.vk3hz.net/XRef/XRef_Icom_IC-706MKIIG-X.pdf

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