50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Magic band discussion - antennas, propagation, operating, etc
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK3AUU » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:22 pm

That means also that for a whole lot of countries south of the equator you are restricted to the LCD like the rest of us unless you are on EME.

David
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK2AAH » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:23 pm

No probs Gary! You certainly have me thinking about trying this approach, however I think your application was successful because you demonstrated good reasons for the variation. I don't think many of us would be granted the variation- but I hope you have proved a point to some about the merit of working within the system rather than moaning about it. Good luck!

Regards,


Richard
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK4ABW » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:42 pm

David. TEP stands for Trans-Equatorial-Propagation. Any educated amateur knows that the signals can hop along the Geo-magnetic equator and bounce out anywhere or continue across and then traverse the equator again. The signal can also scatter along the geomagnetic equator and come south again (this is how i heard FR1, HK3, etc last cycle).

Just where is it written on my permit that i can't work countries south of the equator? even if i point east...guess where the geo-magnetic equator is?

You might want to rethink that last post mate.

Gary
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK4ABW » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:15 pm

Oh....by the way....before someone else thinks of it, i can beam west too. Is the geomagnetic equator that way....HELL NO but my paperwork says i can shoot full QRO that way too.

Stop ya whinging....stop ya bitching and take Richard's hint. I'm not attaching all 10 pages of my paperwork.

I got off my a*se and did something about 50mhz limitations. The rest is up to YOU.

You can please some but you can never please all....i'm sure it's a famous saying somewhere :|

Gary
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK2AAH » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:36 pm

Gary,

Dangerous territory really when you think about it- if someone wants to be malicious.

I think I wrote that a few hours ago.

Beware the whingers Gary. I've dealt with ACMA long enough to know that while 90% are good blokes (and the odd lady) some of their radio inspectors can be quite lazy when it comes to properly investigating facts. If they don't understand it they will assume you are at fault. I'm not sure if I would be so keen to point the antenna westwards & argue that the mode is TEP. It might be, but then if someone complains some RIs would just issue the bluey & let you fight it out. I think it was written somewhere "the ACMA giveth and the ACMA taketh away" if you catch my drift! The fact they have granted your licence variation does demonstrate they have a degree of respect for you- they wouldn't have given it to you if they thought you were a mug.

Regards,


Richard
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK4ABW » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:24 pm

I think this topic has been de-railed.

Your right Richard.....whingers. I have a good professional relationship with the ACMA and having worked for the Commonwealth as a radio communications officer for 26 years, i'm keeping it that way.

no further comments. this subject is closed for me.

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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK2XV » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:43 pm

vk4abw wrote:
VK2XV wrote:“In eastern call areas, operation is restricted to the band 50.0 – 50.30 MHz.”

Full stop; period; end of story.

73 Steve VK2XV


Steve. Your point is very valid but i would also like the opportunity to have a say. See below:


Thanks for the detail about your Variation to Licence - however it was unnecessary for two reasons. Firstly, the original post was about the current LCD (which I thought was clear enough). Secondly, I am very familiar about Variations as you one to operate on 136kHz (an allocate Amateur Band, but not the current LCD) and I was probably (but not certainly) one of the first to get one for that band. Also I assisted several others to get same.

Variations to licence are a matter between you and the ACMA and it is no business of others (including myself). Operating contrary to the current LCD without a variation probably is.

But - congratulations on getting your permission to operate outside the LCD.

Once again, the initial purpose of this thread was to those who don't have such a variation.

In that spirit it probably would have been better for all concerned to qualify this...

I will say it again.........if you are outside a channel O area and there are no other services...go for it.


with

"after you have obtained your variation"

Good luck with your experiments and keep us posted about the results.

73 Steve VK2XV
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK2JH » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:26 am

Hi all,

I think that the original posting on this subject was by someone, living in a Ch0 TV "no-go" zone, genuinely looking at possibilities of operating close to the 50.1 area, but still abiding by the rules. I live at Tamworth which has a Ch0 translator in the town for Prime TV. Now, I live 25km sth of that and no one around here can or does watch it, due to hills and the availability of the analogue and digital site at Mt Soma, just to the west (I can see the masts from my house).

Now, some time back, I inquired from the ACMA by email, as to whether I could be allowed to operate on 50 Mhz, with even a low power limitation, due to the fact that I would not cause tvi to my farming neighbours. I also received an email reply
(lost it somewhere in the files) from an ACMA officer who said no to the request, but said I could operate above 50.3 on a non-interference basis. I did not question it at the time, nor did I operate there, even though I tried a couple of times via the Logger. Obviously, this officer interpreted the rules incorrectly, but still gave that advice. Would I have been wrong following it?

What I am saying is that it was just an investigation looking at a legal way for 50 Meg deprived operators to get close to the action, not a way to flaunt the rules. Those of us living in these areas constantly pray for big lightning strikes at selected TV transmitting sites, your assistance would be greatly accepted!! :evil: :twisted:

See you ALL on 50 Megs one day,


John
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK3AUU » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:06 am

It would seem that the left hand knoweth not what the right hand doeth.

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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK2XV » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:12 am

G'day John,

VK2JH wrote:Obviously, this officer interpreted the rules incorrectly, but still gave that advice. Would I have been wrong following it?


Bugger - I just spent half an hour writing a response to this and then right at the end I clicked off to check a spelling and of course lost everything. Yes - I know stupid me - there is a save function. I can't bring myself to do that again so I will paraphrase the lost tome...

1. If you have a written sanction (be it a formal variation or a response to a question) from the ACMA and you act accordance with that, IMHO, you are not doing anything wrong.

2. My input (and that of several others) was to point out that such sanctions (right or wrong down the track) obtained by individuals such as yourself do not mean that the LCD allows it for all. It clearly, for most readers, does not - even without reference to the WIA document.

3. There has been an attempt by some to deflect this discussion about the LCD (as currently written) onto your input in a transparent attempt to cover their own red-faces. Normally I would tolerate that as par for the course for testosterone-driven thought processes, but it crosses the line when it results in someone (you), who I have talked with enjoyably and constructively for several years on 160M, feeling I am taking a swipe at them.

In short, I see now from my point of view it is a waste of time trying to be "helpful" as almost all posts by anyone is invariably high-jacked by egos (and I am NOT talking about you, John). The unfortunate effect is that often the original poster gets sucked into the whirling blades (myself included) as it is difficult ignore the fact that their name is at the top of the post which has been dragged off the original intent. The only solution is to not post in the first place to try and be "helpful". I am too old for the aggravation, but I have an indestructible faith that people will take "help" in the spirit it is meant as I do and so will almost certainly allow myself to be sucked into the whirling blades in the future.

Desiderata...

Heres hoping you will still speak to me on 160M/80M....

73 Steve VK2XV
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK2AAH » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:17 am

Hi John,

I thought you were out at Dubbo? I noticed your name in the ACMA database and noticed you were in Tamworth territory.

You would have been wrong in accepting the verbal advice even if what he said was a practical common sense approach. You still would have been in breach.

If you are in a rural area and can demonstrate that you can operate (even at 100W) without a likelihood of interference then you should follow Gary's lead and submit a licence variation to ACMA. But the key is that you need to do the maths. Gary submitted 10 pages of supporting documentation but in your case it would probably involve much less than that.

Regards,

Richard
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK2JH » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:43 am

Hi Richard,

Mmmmm, can't hide anywhere!!! No, left Dubbo in 1994, to Sydney until late 2000, then up here for work, now retired from the circus. No, I am not as keen as Gary, only thought that I would sound them out, at the time. Even if they did give me a variation, the noise and de-sense and everthing else from the TV tx would still be there. I will just wait for the demise of the Ch0 tx one day.... soon, I hope.

Cheers,

John
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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK2AAH » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:05 am

Hi John,

It wasn't your call that caught my eye but the fact that you could see the Soma tower- I have good friends that live in your area & I really doubt they would be watching channel 0 as most seem to have satellite.

Not many of the old guard left any more unfortunately. Say hi to Al if you see him around!

Cheers,


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Re: 50.3MHz to 52MHz in Eastern States...

Postby VK2JH » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:48 pm

Richard,

Your name rings a bell, but only a little one??? Look up my email address on the "op info" and send me an email reminding me who you are. I don't see your details there. In regards to Al, he retired last year and have not seen or heard of him.

John
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