South Pacific Multiple SpE

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South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK2SWL2 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:11 pm

Hi everyone, a non ham related question but the 6 metre enthusiasts will be best placed to answer this one.

Given some amazing recent recent 3 Es FM band reception from Ireland to North America the questions have been asked in the forum we generally use about what would be possible from Australia at 88-108 MHz. Now of course Ireland to North America has the big advantage that there is nothing in between to cause interference on the first or second hops.

Here in eastern Australia aiming east all we have to aim for is low power Pacific wide band FM, generally under 5kW at most where power information is even available. And generally I suspect most stations would be well under 1kW. Making multi hop propagation much more of a challenge.

So to get back to the 6 metre content, does anyone have some links to 6 metre South Pacific DXpeditions that have given some awesome contacts via multiple Es? This would give us some idea what *might* be possible if conditions were really good. i.e. could 3Es from somewhere like Fiji or Tahiti into South America be possible?

The problem with tracking DX conditions from these locations is the lack of active people there on any band, but having heard Fiji briefly from Sydney last season I would expect a DXer in Fiji would get Sydney a lot more often due to our much higher power stations. We are dreaming a bit in case we win Lotto and could afford to do a really good DX pedition to one of those places, but it is fun to talk about.

So any links to 6 metre South Pacific trips during Es season would be appreciated. Cheers.
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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK2ZRH » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:07 pm

Propagation via long-haul multi-hop sporadic E across the South Pacific is certainly possible, and I have an example.

The VP6DX DXpedition to Ducie Island in February 2008 ran a 6m beacon, which was heard in Tonga (A35RK) and at Atherton, North Queensland (VK4SIX).

Ducie Island is a small atoll located 540 km east of Pitcairn at 24 degrees 40 mins S latitude and 124 degrees 47 mins W longitude.

Here are the VKlogger reports from VK4SIX and A35RK:

22Feb 01:48 VK4SIX DX VP6DX in CG75OH on 50.1055MHz BCN RST: 21? > QH22RR @9185km

22Feb 03:28 A35RK I heard them at their local noon (203 0Z), and then again at our local noon (0100Z)

The path between VP6DX and VK4SIX is some four (4) Es hops.

Below is the IPS Radio & Space Services ionogram from Niue, at 0120Z. Nieu is located west of Ducie, at 20 degrees S latitude and 167 degrees 48 mins W longitude. I estimate the MUF for a propagation path passing the vicinity of Niue to be greater than 60 MHz on this occasion.

Tonga is located 19.8 degrees S latitude, 174.35 degrees W longitude, while Atherton in QLD is 17.26 degrees S latitude, 145.48 degrees E longitude.

So. The possibilities are there. Good luck with it.

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
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Niue ionogram for 22Feb08_VKlogger.gif
Niue ionogram showing Es with MUF >60 MHz.
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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK2SWL2 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:49 pm

Thanks Roger

Given that February is a bit after the peak of the Es season it gives hope that during December/January even better things might be possible. It would probably be a frustrating excercise to try it unless you happened to hit a good year and some luck. But still, nothing ventured, nothing gained (now where is that Lotto win?)

Cheers

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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK4XA » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:26 am

Just for interests sake,
There was this spot a few days ago from Gary, VK4ABW.

26-Jul-09 00:30 VK4ABW >> W1JJ in FN41 on 50.2040 JT65 -16 > QH30GT @ 15699.2km 89°
tks for qso Mick. 73s


Multi-Hop Es?
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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK4FP » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:46 pm

26-Jul-09 00:30 VK4ABW >> W1JJ in FN41 on 50.2040 JT65 -16 > QH30GT @ 15699.2km 89°
tks for qso Mick. 73s

Multi-Hop Es?

Jeff,
Gary's contact was bounced off the moon .
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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK4WDM » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:22 pm

Re long-haul Pacific Dx on 6m. I would say its lack of operators rather than lack of propagation. Most of the Pacific Islands are workable during summer E's. I have a number of them confirmed, some had very big signals. Hawaii is almost a daily contact once the SS numbers increase and the North American Pacific coast is quite common.

My guess is that a lot of the Pacific could be worked on 2m and even 70cm if there were operators with the equipment.

As I have said in previous posts, more beacons would make things easier.

73

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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK2ZRH » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:15 am

Lack of operators - correct, Wayne :!: Go to the top of the class :wink:
Hawaii is almost a daily contact once the SS numbers increase and the North American Pacific coast is quite common.

That's not long-haul Es, it's transequatorial propagation. :mrgreen:

Sporadic E in the equatorial region (+/- 10 degrees geomagnetic latitude) is quite a different beast to Es in the mid- geomagnetic latitudes. See: "Sporadic E: turmoil, turbulence and torment" (by yours truly), Proceedings from the Tenth Annual Gippsland Technical Conference, July 2007.

TEP is solar cycle dependent; as you say: once the SS numbers increase. :D

See: http://home.iprimus.com.au/toddemslie/aTEP-Harrison.htm

Posted "for the record".

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK4WDM » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:49 pm

Ok, I should have taken more notice of the original question. I thought it was about long-haul QSO's across the Pacific not just E's. :oops:

73

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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK4ABW » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:38 am

Multiple E hops, forward / side scatter from North Queensland 'not to be confused with TEP along/across the equator :wink:

Well....seeing as there are very few 'indicators' to the east, the way i can tell if a path is developing is by listening for the tell-tale signs of rising short particle noise and scattered signals from the guys down south. When i hear a VK from the south, or ZL from the south east, i swing the long boom yagi through SE - NE to check for scatter. If its there, then at least i know that sparodic E to the east is developing. :P

Many times I have noticed that the direction of the scattered signal can be very broad which makes it difficult to decide on where to park the beam. The only way i can describe peaking the direction is by how deep the reflection sounds, the deeper the better. This is when i call 'cq to the east' (which probably confuses everyone down south as to why i'm beaming east when conditions appear to be north/south :roll: ). Also, when i start hearing echo's from local 6 mtr stations, then it is a damn good sign that the E cloud is a strong one and there is a good chance of working single hop to FK8, C21, T31 - 33, etc.

There is a mixture of conditions to the east of us in NQ due to our latitude. During the middle of the day, TEP from the north permits JA signals to cross the equator, enter the E cloud and scatter back to us in Townsville. This occurs when the JA's are hearing/working South America. We hear the JA's very strong to the east/south east exhibiting the tell tale signs of distorted TEP (raspy hollow sound). Swinging the beam to the north reveals that we can't hear the JA's direct :(
At other times, multiple E hops occur and we get to hear/work South Cook/North Cook Islands, Pitcairn but never South America.

Over several solar cycle's i have worked most of the South Pacific via E's or multiple E's but never worked any further than Easter Island :( (so close but so far).

Also, there is a fair amount of overlap of sparodic E / TEP (direction wise) to the east of Townsville due to the dip in the geomagnetic equator. :shock: This makes it difficult to explain just where the 'transistion' occurs, but i believe that we experience a mixture of both worlds. Beaming due east, you would think that the only mode available would be sparodic E, but i have worked the Carribean and Columbia many times and it is not E's! It's TEP and the tell tale sign is that it always drifts north (progressive angular change along/across the geomagnetic equator as the sun moves) and works it's way from CostaRica (TI2) up through Mexico (XE) and into the USA (W6). I have observed this same pattern over several cycles, yet at other times it just drops into the pacific and we hear/work no one which to me is sparodic E.

Unfortunately there is no precise answer as to which direction multiple hop E's start/finish to the east / south east of Townsville and the lack of indicators is frustrating. Maybe everyone is asleep at the other end, or it just misses populated areas but i can say that over 3 cycles of experience, the results seem to dimish expotentionally for every successive E hop which appears to coincide with the populated areas in the pacific.

cheers de VK4ABW
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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK3ZAZ » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:00 pm

VK2SWL2 wrote:Thanks Roger

Given that February is a bit after the peak of the Es season it gives hope that during December/January even better things might be possible. It would probably be a frustrating excercise to try it unless you happened to hit a good year and some luck. But still, nothing ventured, nothing gained (now where is that Lotto win?)

Cheers

Richard



Today we had multi hop e skip out to 6667 km.
The 30 second openings passed without many contacts being made.

Now I know what its like to be a VK6.


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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK4GHZ » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:31 pm

Every June/July we read about the JA > NA and EU > NA Es 7,000km+ contacts, but what about the Southern Hemisphere?

It can be a long time between new countries, but eventually I worked E51CG #112 on 6M.
The last being A35RK two years ago.
It was frustrating hearing VK4CZ (on the northside of Brisbane, and only 22.8km away) relaying the solid copy he had on E51CG via 2M FM hours earlier, whilst we on the southside heard diddly squat.

So far, this is pointing to a huge summer Es season this year! :D
Working A3 and E51 in the 3rd week of November is two weeks earlier than expected - based on the historical data accumulated here on VK Logger so far.

Lets face it, with the lack of enthusiastic 6M operators in the Pacific Rim area, what can be worked via summer Es is still a huge unknown.
I personally think that Pitcairn is do-able from east coast of VK, as well as everything in between.
The only thing stopping this is a lack of interest and motivation.
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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK7XX » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:21 am

VK4CP wrote:I personally think that Pitcairn is do-able from east coast of VK, as well as everything in between.



With this in mind, I have invited my friend David, VP6DB to join us on the logger.

regards
John
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Re: South Pacific Multiple SpE

Postby VK4ABW » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:13 am

Observation of multiple hop E's on the 22 Nov 09 from NQ.
As anticipated, once the FK8 beacon rose out of the noise floor (mid morning), i started hearing E51WL on cw. When the FK8 beacon peaked in signal strength, so did E51WL. The New Calidonia beacon then disappeared for approximately 30 minutes but rose out of the noise again, this time slightly louder. Once again i was able to hear E51WL and attempt a contact but signals dropped rapidly again.

By midday the FK8 beacon was returning a lot quicker and each time a little louder and longer in duration. This produced good results with E51WL and E51CG both being very audible. At the same time Paul (A35A) came on air and was very audible with a S2 signal strength.
I worked Paul, then Victor and then Warwick within several minutes of each other.

The openings were of good duration and always coincided with the FK8 beacon's appearance. The New Calidonia beacon was audible for many many hours, rising to S5 and then falling back to just above the noise floor. This continued until late afternoon with North Cook and South Cook stations being audible for a very long time and Paul was there until he went QRT.

Having beacons/operators on these islands makes for interesting observations of multiple hop E's :D
Gary
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