JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

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JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK4WDM » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:04 am

Although this sunspot cycle maxima has been a big disappointment as far as 6m DX goes, it was also the first one where we had ready access to the weak signal modes JT65, JT9, and path indicators like WSPR and chirp radar.

There is no doubt about the effectiveness of these modes on HF, but my perception is that these modes appear to have little use on 6m, and apart from some JT65 contacts with JA, all other DX contacts have been with good old CW and some SSB.

Am I right? Have any non-EME contacts been made with Africa, the Americas, the Middle East, or Europe using JT65 or JT9? How many WSPR reports from these areas? If not, then why not?

Has it simply been that the 6m ops have been slow to utilize these modes? I know I have, or have there been a lot of attempts that have failed and we tend not to report failed attempts? Is because if the path is not there, its not there, and even weak signal modes won't make a difference?

This cycle is obviously declining, and we may have missed the bus, but I strongly suggest that we should made an effort to use weak signal modes on 6m while a chance still remains, especially on the non-TEP paths. I am sending JT65 towards NA during our mornings. I know the chances are low but they are zero if we don't try :om:

73

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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK7XX » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:24 am

VK4WDM wrote:A
Has it simply been that the 6m ops have been slow to utilize these modes? I


Yes!

I have been using JT65 since 2008 and currently have logged well over 8k contacts on JT65 & 600+ on JT9. My first contact on that mode was with Jim, VK3II and was on the 2m band. Over many years I made mention of JT65 on the 6m logger but was unable to get anyone to give it a go. It was to be 6 years later before I had my 1st 6m JT65 contact and that was with VK4MIL and was December 12, 2013. For me, the 6m ice broke on that day and on January 12, 2014 I had several 6m JT65 contacts.

During that time 2008 to 2014 I continued having JT contacts on 2m but just could not get anyone to try it on 6. Today, several 6m ops are regulars on both JT65 & JT9 however, for this cycle, it is as per the line from your post that I quoted above.....

regards
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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK5BC » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:30 am

JT65 has been slow to take off on 6m, I believe there are several reasons for this,

(1)JT65 came into action when we were at the bottom of the cycle and is hardly worth running for E contacts,
(2)this cycle has been very poor hence little international activity except to the north, Japan, China, South Korea etc,
(3)Ja's couldn't legally run data on international JT65 & other data frequencies.

Since data frequencies were opened up in Japan there are now many JT65 contacts taking place to JA's as well as some to China & Sth Korea with many JT65 contacts taking place when band appears to be dead and beacons etc aren't being heard.

2m operators were using JT65 way back in 2007/8, my 1st 2m JT65 contact being with Leigh VK2KRR back in 2008 but there again these contacts were via tropo conditions and not many 6m operators look for tropo contacts.

I don't keep a records of WSPR reports but WSPR was off to a shaky start on 6m with several saying it wouldn't work because of qsb, multi pathing etc which of course has proved not to be the case with many 6m WSPR reports over the last few years including into JA, ZL and even NA from vk4.

73's Brian
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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK3ZAZ » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:11 pm

VK4WDM wrote:Although this sunspot cycle maxima has been a big disappointment as far as 6m DX goes, it was also the first one where we had ready access to the weak signal modes JT65, JT9, and path indicators like WSPR and chirp radar.

There is no doubt about the effectiveness of these modes on HF, but my perception is that these modes appear to have little use on 6m, and apart from some JT65 contacts with JA, all other DX contacts have been with good old CW and some SSB.

Am I right? Have any non-EME contacts been made with Africa, the Americas, the Middle East, or Europe using JT65 or JT9? How many WSPR reports from these areas? If not, then why not?

Has it simply been that the 6m ops have been slow to utilize these modes? I know I have, or have there been a lot of attempts that have failed and we tend not to report failed attempts? Is because if the path is not there, its not there, and even weak signal modes won't make a difference?

This cycle is obviously declining, and we may have missed the bus, but I strongly suggest that we should made an effort to use weak signal modes on 6m while a chance still remains, especially on the non-TEP paths. I am sending JT65 towards NA during our mornings. I know the chances are low but they are zero if we don't try :om:

73

Wayne VK4WDM


You are pretty right.
If this mode was to be successful I am sure we would have seen results in the more densely populated regions of the world.
As for missed opportunities this cycle on any mode, this cycle was a newbie, nothing like previous cycles and all the predictions based on anecdotal data were bound to fail.

Anyway not about to preach, this cycle failed people for many reasons not the least being themselves and their reliance on clusters loggers and the like.

The dx worked in days gone by is ancient history

Nothing we say or do will bring it back.
That was then and this is now and IMO without CW skills it gets even worse for most.

As they say Johny five is alive in 25 maybe..
Tread your own path :om:
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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK7AM » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:02 pm

Can someone tell me what are the common JT65/JT9 frerquencies in use. I have a collection of articles and there does not seem to be a common calling or working frequency listed.

Thanks
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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK2HRX » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:12 pm

Here is what I have started using as a reference for frequencies.
http://hflink.com/jt65/
http://www.bandplans.com/index.php?name=JT9

I am sure there are many others sources/opinions etc.

Have been decoding JT9 on 10.138.70 (USB) dial frequency the last few days as I try and see if I can catch PS 41.
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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK2KRR » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:21 pm

Its only because people are stuck on their CW or SSB. Especially the larger stations.

VK4TVL has made the path to north America a number of times now, and is only running a J-pole antenna and 20W. So as you can imagine, more well equipped stations would more readily find paths through. VK4TVL pretty much gets paths to Japan daily.
I know ZL1RS has also gotten some through to NA.

See the 50 MHz WSPR thread viewtopic.php?f=85&t=9930&start=120

TVLtoW8AC.JPG
VK4TVL to W8AC east coast


Monitoring 6m WSPR here during daylight hours, alternating to 160m at night. :thumbup:
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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK3DXE » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:34 pm

VK2HRX wrote:Here is what I have started using as a reference for frequencies.
http://hflink.com/jt65/
http://www.bandplans.com/index.php?name=JT9

I am sure there are many others sources/opinions etc.

Have been decoding JT9 on 10.138.70 (USB) dial frequency the last few days as I try and see if I can catch PS 41.


Hi Compton,

I meant to post in the PS-41 thread - just so you don't get discouraged, the balloons only run very low power, around 20mW, so unless you have a really low noise QTH and a decent antenna, you will generally only get reception out to around 6000km on 20m and 30m, with antipodal signals sometimes popping up and being decoded by European stations. Either way, keep an eye on the HABHUB page to see if any of the Africans get it if/when it goes past them again.
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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK2HRX » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:03 pm

Hi Alan,

Yes, I suspect I am out of ranage at the moment for PS41. Got to deal with when it is in sunlight plus when the propogation supports me etc and my band choice. However a station in Ireland did decode it on its first trip around the world, so I wont give up!
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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK3AUU » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:28 pm

So far this year on 6 metres I have made one contact with JT65A into JA using 5 watts to 10 element YU7EF antenna. The most used dial frequency for JT65a between VK and JA seems to be 50.276 upper sideband, but others might also use different frequencies. I sent -9 and got back -18 from JM1SZY so theoretically 1 watt should have done the trick.

At my previous quiet country location on 6 metres with a 15 element 24 metre long yagi of my own design I worked 5 stations off the moon with 120 watts of JT65A. These were off either rising or setting moon where I got a measured 5.5 db of extra ground gain.

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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK4WDM » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:27 pm

Its only because people are stuck on their CW or SSB. Especially the larger stations


Yes, one can on speculate what might have been worked had these "top gun" stations used JT65 at the peak of the cycle.

I too, regret my late entry into the mode. My station is only "small pistol" but I am quite amazed at the JT65 sigs from Japan. A couple of nights ago I worked a JA at 15:00z when there was only a trace very slight trace of 49's and no beacons to be heard.

73

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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby ZL1RS » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:59 pm

During the cycle peak just gone I only worked South America on JT65 and got signals both ways on WSPR with North America, but worked 5 continents on SSB and 6 continents on CW (couldn't find a sniff of VK0-Antarctica no matter much listening and transmitting while Craig and his beacon were there). The digital stuff with SA/NA only happened at the request of the other end.

... come to think of it, I might have worked a couple of W6's on JT65 but I really wasn't that interested because they were so common on CW and SSB.

73,
Bob, ZL1RS in the Bay of Islands at RF64vs
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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby VK3KCX » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:13 am

Seems like plenty of JT65 in use on 6M yesterday, also JT9 and CW, some even tried RTTY.
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Re: JT65, JT9, WSPR on 6m. Missed opportunity?

Postby ZL1RS » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:42 am

Not getting at you personally David, not at all.

Sorry to say, but PSK Reporter is well know as a source of "garbage in = garbage out" ... :crazy:

By comparison, cluster spots on DXSummit over the same period filtered for "6m digi" found 10 spots for 7 QSOs.

73,
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